Basayev - VI

The BBC's Monitoring Service has a report on a Chechen Times interview with President Maskhadov's envoy Umar Khanbiyev, in which he expresses his support for the idea put forward by the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe for a round table to discuss the conflict in Chechnya. For an annotated version of this interview, go here. Some excerpts:

Incidents in Ingushetia, Groznyy and Beslan

[Chelysheva] Could the attack on Ingushetia on 21 June, the attack on Groznyy and the terrorist act in Beslan be links in the same chain, the idea being to enflame inter-ethnic conflicts in the North Caucasus?

[Khanbiyev] I know all about the two combat operations in Ingushetia and Groznyy. Our president has also given his appraisal of these events. We have nothing to hide: the president has a specific attitude to this operation, and I see no grounds for suspecting that the purpose of this operation was an interethnic conflict. If they were aimed at inciting interethnic discord, then I think it would be logical to come out on behalf of the Chechens, but there were Ingush there, led by Ingush commanders. They all said that they would exact revenge for those people who have disappeared without trace in Ingushetia. They called this operation "Retribution". As far as I know, the object of this operation was to punish those who were directly involved in the abductions, and those who attacked knew what their objectives were beforehand. The operation was planned; it was not spontaneous.

During the operation in Groznyy three districts were captured. This was a show of force. It was a combat operation in a town chockfull of checkpoints every hundred metres. The main strike was inflicted on an area near Khankala where the main military base was. It was a demonstration of the armed forces of the Chechen Republic of Ichkeria. These two operations cannot be linked together with what happened in Beslan. Here both the president and we still have important questions.

Let us ask ourselves this: who benefited from this and to what degree? Our side has not resolved any problems. On the contrary, this [operation] was directed against the Chechens, against Maskhadov's side and we can see the results now. Our president proposed a way out of this situation: "If the terrorists' demands concern Chechnya and this means talks, I am prepared today without any preconditions to come and do
everything in order to rescue the children." He did not just say this, this was his decision. But, unfortunately, no provision was made for his participation. That is precisely why a kind of spontaneous storm began. But listen to the military analysts who decided that everything started with the blowing up of the outer wall. Perhaps this was an unprepared, indiscriminate attack.

That's what it looked like. Perhaps there was a lack of coordination on the part of those who carried out the orders and those who gave them. That's possible. But the fact that all the actions were agreed with the Russian government - of that there is no doubt at all. If you take into consideration that among the dead bodies of those who captured the school were some who have been in prison for long periods and have been convicted, one has to ask why were they not in prison but in Beslan? And who brought them there? We have no specific answers to these questions. And even the fact that [Chechen rebel commander Shamil] Basayev took responsibility for it does not provide an exact answer. Even if one allows for Shamil's participation in this terrorist act, he only had a supporting role, as it were. It is perfectly possible that the idea was put to him, as the Russian side usually does, via the FSB and those Chechens who work for the FSB. The future chain of events is already in the hands of the FSB.

Basayev's involvement in Beslan

[Chelysheva] Then how do you assess Basayev's possible participation and even more his declaration that he takes responsibility for Beslan?

[Khanbiyev] What I'm saying is that he could have been indirectly involved in this. We accept this possibility. We have discussed this question but we still do not know the exact answer to it. But we do accept that someone from among his "trusted" people suggested to Basayev the idea which, in its turn, came from other players. Here is where the game of two sides began. When we come to this conclusion it becomes quite dreadful. Unfortunately, today we cannot be any more precise about this or have any more details, so we simply cannot find any other explanation.

[Chelysheva] Starting from 1999, hardly anything Basayev has done has brought any benefit to the Chechen people.

[Khanbiyev] That's right. Terrorist acts against innocent people cannot bring any benefit. We realize that perfectly well. And our president is always speaking out against this. He talked to Basayev about this. He says that his disagreements with Basayev are that Basayev believes he has a moral right to do what the Russians are doing to the Chechens, and it comes back like a boomerang. And Maskhadov says that we are the side which should be turning towards the world community. We cannot permit such actions and then they won't do them to us. We must not violate the Geneva conventions although we, being an unrecognised state, have not signed them. But that is what Maskhadov is striving towards. Therefore in relation to the fighters he has always maintained that they should not behave as the invaders are behaving. In a recent statement he made after Basayev had claimed responsibility, Maskhadov found a solution to this problem. One cannot accuse the Chechens for having Basayev among them, because such "Basayevs" can also be found on the Russian side. There are any number of them. For example, [Russian comm ander of western group of forces Gen] Shamanov is no different from him. Maskhadov says: "Let's do this. Let's set up an international tribunal, and I promise you that all those, including Basayev, who are guilty of crimes against humanity will be brought to trial." But the Russian side must do the same. Basayev could not have emerged by himself. If we want to close the question of terrorism, then we must combat it in the way Maskhadov proposes. We must set up an international tribunal. So long as people who organize terrorist acts and generals, too, have no sense of responsibility and feel that they can defend criminal regimes, it will be difficult to end the wave of violence. The threat of an international trial could restrain someone from cruelty in conditions of war, and especially terrorism.