Al-Siba'i Interview

From MEMRI, an excerpt from an interview with the director of the London Al-Maqreze Centre for Historical Studies, Dr. Hani Al-Siba'i. The excerpt follows a more recent interview in which Al-Siba'i talks about the London bombings.

Al-Siba'i: "As for the slaughtering and the recordings used [by Al-Zarqawi] - we must consider these people's mentality. What is their source of authority? The problem is that our sheiks, our clerics, and the religious institutions - especially official ones - are constantly running away from the truth."

Host: "The truth? What is the truth?"

Al-Siba'i: "That is the question I'd like to answer. Do these people base themselves on Islamic law or not? They claim that they do, and to support it, they say that slaughtering appeared in a hadith by the Prophet, which was pronounced authentic by Sheik Ahmad Shaker. The Prophet told the Quraysh tribe: 'I have brought slaughter upon you,' making this gesture. But these are religious issues that may be disputed."

Al-Siba'i: "The Mujahideen say: 'This is the time for Jihad jurisprudence. Iraq is an occupied country, so we must study Jihad jurisprudence, which is exceptional law. In this case, there is no need to ask permission – a wife does not need to ask for her husband's permission to fight.'"

Host: "There is no consensus here. This is just one opinion."

Al-Siba'i: "This is the opinion of the greatest clerics."

Host: "But there are other clerics who criticize and condemn what is happening…"

Al-Siba'i: "The problem, Dr. Muhammad…"

Host: "Does the problem lie with Al-Zarqawi or with the religious scholars?"

Al-Siba'i: "The problem lies with the religious scholars. When they are asked to confront these [ Mujahideen ], to talk with them and respond to the evidence they present. [The Mujahideen ] tell the Prophet drove nails into and gouged out the eyes of people from the 'Urayna Tribe. They were merely a group of thieves who stole from sheep herders, and the Prophet drove nails into them and threw them into the Al-Hrara area, and left them there to die. He blinded them and cut off their opposite legs and arms. This is what the Prophet did on a trifling matter – let alone in war. What else could they do when a 1000 lb. bomb lands on a house or a shack belonging to poor people, and the world doesn't shed a tear, but cries only about the slaughtering? All they have is a knife… "

Host: "Dr. Al-Siba'i, do you personally condemn anything they do? Can you say that even though you support these groups' case, they use such means? Is there a single method you are willing to condemn?"

Al-Siba'i: "I, myself… I condemn the occupation, which is the cause of all these tragedies. The occupation caused all these disasters. The country was safe and peaceful, until the Americans came, and we are expected to blame those who fight in defense of their honor?! When people hear me say… I received a picture over the internet, and when I opened it I saw a woman being raped by seven men. An Iraqi woman in prison – this is on American websites now – and when I saw her, I couldn't sleep a wink. A woman being raped, completely naked, in prison."

Host: "This is a despicable picture, worthy of condemnation."

Al-Siba'i: "You expect me to criticize them for using a knife to slaughter some American?!"

Ali Al-Saraf, Iraqi Journalist: "Dr. Hani said the Prophet gouged out a man's eye, killed another, and threw…"

Al-Siba'i: "This is a true tradition in the collection of Al-Bukhari."

Al-Saraf: "Excuse me, the Prophet did not do this to innocent people, like this riffraff in Iraq. They kill people who have nothing to do with…"

Al-Siba'i: "Do you mean the Americans?"

Al-Saraf: "I mean the riffraff – American or not – who kill innocent people."

Al-Siba'i: "The only riffraff I know are the Americans."

Al-Saraf: "If the Americans kill innocent people, they are riffraff, and if your guys, the Islamists, kill innocent people they are riffraff too."

Al-Siba'i: "Excuse me, don't say 'your guys.'"

Al-Saraf: "There are innocent people who are being murdered for no reason. Margaret Hassan shouldn't have been slaughtered, nor Kenneth Bigley, who was about to retire. He was put in a cage smaller then a chicken coop. I don't know what human sentiment has the audacity to call despicable actions 'resistance.'"

Al-Siba'i: People believe lies and falsehoods. Allow me to disagree with Mr. Ali. Abu Mus'ab Al-Zarqawi himself issued a communiqué – and I believe Mr. Kamil and people who follow the press know this – he issued a communiqué that appeared on all TV channels, in which he called upon the group that kidnapped Margaret Hassan to release her, and said she was innocent. She was slaughtered by [Iyad] Allawi's gang… They don't even acknowledge the term 'civilians.'"

Host: "Who decides what the term means?"

Al-Siba'i: "The religious legal authority. One reads in history… I have an historical religious source of authority. Islamic history has no term for 'civilian' in the Western sense. This is a Western term. In our Islamic rules of war, one can be a 'combatant', a 'non-combatant', or 'protected by an agreement.' A person can be a combatant even if he does not carry a weapon. In other words, a person who came to wash and cook for the American soldiers in order to free them to fight – like the Nepalese – such a person is considered a combatant."